The Swingers Attic

Tag: convincing

Suggesting the lifestyle to a girlfriend

by on Jun.29, 2011, under Newbie Help, Unsorted

Question:

I have a bit of a catch 22 here. I would like to get into the life
style, but that is hard when I a single male, and when I suggest going
to a party to my girl friend I soon find myself single again.

That has happened twice now.
Any thing to help this?

Answer:
By Miranda-
I suggest you get into the lifestyle as a single male.  I think because you’re totally committed to the idea of becoming a participant in the lifestyle it may be best if you start off on your own and work yourself up to maybe finding a single women already playing in the lifestyle.
I think it’s important for you to do this because attempting to draw women into a relationship that you eventually turn around and suggest, “Hey baby let’s play with other people,” apparently is a bit scary for these little fawns.  Some women are able to have that openness in a new relationship but most won’t.
For example, Aarron and I have been together eight years and married four and it wasn’t until a couple years ago that I was ready to take the very intimate road to swinging.
It’s a larger commitment than you think to begin this venture and so these women aren’t even telling you they think you’re insane, they’re saying they aren’t ready and you have no right to ask them so soon.
I can’t speak for these women of course so I really don’t know how they feel, but I’ll tell you that if you’re getting into these relationships with hopes you’ll get them into the swinging sack you need to re evaluate your need for a serious girlfriend.
I just answered another single male question on how to approach a women’s husband at a social meet and greet, please read that and maybe begin researching where in your area you can participate.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you enter your next relationship with the intent of   developing an intimate connection built on trust and love and with NO other agenda.  It sometimes takes years (we know couples who didn’t start swinging until their 15 wedding anniversaries) to develop the type of relationship that can withstand the pressure and stress the lifestyle can sometimes present.  Don’t take swinging lightly and don’t assume it’s just sex and games.  A well formed relationship must be established in which to survive and thrive in the lifestyle.  The reason these women are running for the hills isn’t because you’re sexual desires freak them out, they’re running because the trust and commitment of the relationship hasn’t been formed before you turned on the red light.  Thank you so much for your question.

Answer:
By Aarron-
Not sure how long you have had these girlfriends before asking them to swing, so I am just going with the assumption of a year or less each.
First of all, building trust and a real partnership is very important before diving into swinging when it comes to most women. Security is what lets them go to that place in a world that calls the activity taboo.
You must remember that women live in a world where it is considered bad by the majority to have multiple sex partners. They are called sluts, whores, skanks, etc… all in a nasty manner for even having just 7 or 8 sexual lifetime partners. They are taught it devalues them. To be secure enough to jump into swinging most women need a partner they know will not judge them in that manner and who will stay with and support them.
With such a partner many women find the world of swinging an enlightening and empowering experience.
How women are viewed by the general masses when it comes to sexual activities is the very reason there are so few single women in swinging compared to single men.
Men are not judged in such ways.
So… How to suggest going to a swingers party for the first time…
If you have a girlfriend now and have not spoken about swinging to her, but wish to do so my suggestion is going slow.
Bring up swinging and other forms of nonmonogamy in ways that keep it outside of your own relationship.
Maybe talk about related news events, surveys, movies, etc…
This will get the ball rolling in the right direction and let you know where she stands on the subject.
If after a few weeks of this all seems cool, slowly start adding in suggestions as hypothetical type situations. Don’t rush it.
Women don’t want to feel pushed or rushed.
Eventually you can get to good fantasy play.
Once you have those bits in place (her views from discussions+fantasy talk) give it some more time before starting in with the “I would like to do that for real,” type talk. Once you start with that I suggest not doing it very much. A tiny mention twice in a month can keep it in her mind and let her build her own ideas on the subject. A mention every other day could make her think your just pushing her and that she isn’t enough for you.
If she doesn’t end up wanting to try it out in that way then it most likely isn’t a good idea anyway.
Scenario two is that you have a new girlfriend or are between girlfriends currently.
In this case my advice would be different.
You are not connected with this girl yet. No actual bonds or commitments exist.
In the same way as I mentioned above get the topic out there in the open.
Start a dialog from something related. News, TV characters, music, art, etc…
In this scenario however once that dialog has been started you should just jump in with your viewpoints.
Let it be known from the start that you think the idea of swinging is cool.
You are not a real couple yet, so there isn’t any huge pressure. It lays your cards on the table so the women knows what she will be getting into if she gets into a serious relationship with you.
Many will “run for the hills,” as Miranda said, but that is not a bad thing if becoming part of the lifestyle is a necessity for you.
It is better to just get it out there right away than spend months forming a relationship your not going to have success with or not be content with.
As for Miranda’s idea of finding a single woman who is already in the swingers lifestyle, best bet if your single at the the moment is to go that direction.
It wont be easy, but it does happen. We have met many couples who originally met as singles through lifestyle clubs and websites.
Good luck to you.

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She wants an open marriage

by on Apr.08, 2011, under Newbie Help, Unsorted

Question:

I have been trying to talk my wife into swinging for years with no success. For Christmas this year I bought her some books that a lot of swinger sites recommend. The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn to be specific. We always talk about threesomes in bed and she likes it so I thought these books would make her more open minded about swinging as a real thing. Last month she said she was still not interested in swinging but would be interested in exploring an open relationship. I am not fond of the open relationship idea.  We have been fighting about it ever since and I don’t know what to do. She says that swinging is to impersonal for her and if I want more then that is the only way she is willing to go. I don’t want things that personal. I just want the sex. She says that I would have the opportunity that way for sex and she would not have the opportunity for personal connections in swinging. I think she is wrong and that swingers can connect if that’s what she needs. No matter what I say she wants it her way or no way. What can I do to get her away from the open marriage mindset and into the idea of the lifestyle?

Answer:
By Miranda-
To be 100% honest with you it sounds like you and your wife aren’t ready for the lifestyle OR an open relationship.  The lifestyle involves a communication that if you can’t seem to have a little bit of now you aren’t going to have it later and as for the open relationship I guarantee complete disaster if you go into it against your will. 
It sounds to me that you and your wife are having a major power struggle which takes NO place in an alternative lifestyle whether it be swinging or an open relationship. 
I rarely ever tell my readers to back off and drop subjects but in this case I promise if either one of you press either subject only resentment will follow on both sides. 
I always would like to believe that every relationship is able to handle an alternative lifestyle and granted not knowing your relationship I truly can’t say you aren’t up for the sometimes difficult and long bumpy road swinging can entail.  I do know that with you protesting an open relationship and your wife protesting swinging I honestly believe you both can only handle what you have right now which is a marriage. 
If you falter from your opinions…resentment!  If she falters from her opinions…resentment!
  Let me ask you this, if you have to talk your wife into swinging do you really want her doing it?  And if she says it’s either an open relationship or no way, is that how you want to start an open relationship? 
So… in conclusion, drop both topics for a while and if the communication in your relationship improves maybe open up the conversation again.

Answer:
By Aarron-
One of the odd things about swinging vs open marriage type relationships is that everyone has different definitions.
For some an open relationship entails the ability to do anything they please, while for others it is a very huge list of rules with boundaries up the wazzu.
Swinging for some is the same… one couple thinks of it as completely physical recreational activity to partake in every other month while another may think of it as dating for couples and think becoming best buddies forever is a prerequisite for anything sexual ever taking place.
I have met self described poly people who go from bed to bed without a blink and “swingers” who need half a dozen dates before the panties even begin to come off.
You are right in thinking swinging can give “connections” at a deeper level.
Your wife is wrong in thinking an open marriage type situation is how to achieve such connections.
That doesn’t really matter though because it is all a matter of perspective.
Whichever rout you go the pace will be set by preconceived notions.
If you do eventually end up in the swingers world you will actually find that a lot of couples who swing classify themselves as being in an open relationship just because they have sex with others. In that one aspect they are “open.”
The self described “open relationship” couple may also freak out at the idea of a spouse going to lunch with another from the swinging lifestyle if they are not included. In that aspect they are insecure and very closed.
I agree with Miranda that you should step back from the conversation for a while.
If your fighting about it before you become involved I can’t even imagine how bad you will be fighting after a play date goes wrong.
I would also recommend you read those books you purchased for your wife at Christmas if you haven’t already. The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn are not swinger specific books.
People in the swinging lifestyle do often recommend them as great reads, but they are not meant to sell a person on the swinging lifestyle.
Read them!
One thing I got from the description of your situation that is VERY good is that your wife did read those books.
What that tells me is that she actually has a very open mind and is basing her wishes on the information she has gleaned from reading them.
Just as I think you should read the books you got for her I think you could get her a few other books that are more specifically geared towards the swinging lifestyle.
If she is a knowledge seeker she will read them and base her opinions on a larger amount of information than she has from the two books you already got for her.
Some recommendations:
Swinging for Beginners: An Introduction to the Lifestyle (Revised Edition)
Recreational Sex : An Insider’s Guide to the Swinging Lifestyle
Swinging from A to Z: A how-to guide from a full-swap Lifestyle couple for enhancing your relationship with recreational sex
Realise that no book will sell a person on the swinging lifestyle.
For all I know you wife will become even more adamant about not swinging by increasing her knowledge base on the subject.
Swinging is simply not for everyone.

The books mentioned in the question and answers above:
The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures
Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality

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