The Swingers Attic

Tag: wife

She wants an open marriage

by on Apr.08, 2011, under Newbie Help, Unsorted

Question:

I have been trying to talk my wife into swinging for years with no success. For Christmas this year I bought her some books that a lot of swinger sites recommend. The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn to be specific. We always talk about threesomes in bed and she likes it so I thought these books would make her more open minded about swinging as a real thing. Last month she said she was still not interested in swinging but would be interested in exploring an open relationship. I am not fond of the open relationship idea.  We have been fighting about it ever since and I don’t know what to do. She says that swinging is to impersonal for her and if I want more then that is the only way she is willing to go. I don’t want things that personal. I just want the sex. She says that I would have the opportunity that way for sex and she would not have the opportunity for personal connections in swinging. I think she is wrong and that swingers can connect if that’s what she needs. No matter what I say she wants it her way or no way. What can I do to get her away from the open marriage mindset and into the idea of the lifestyle?

Answer:
By Miranda-
To be 100% honest with you it sounds like you and your wife aren’t ready for the lifestyle OR an open relationship.  The lifestyle involves a communication that if you can’t seem to have a little bit of now you aren’t going to have it later and as for the open relationship I guarantee complete disaster if you go into it against your will. 
It sounds to me that you and your wife are having a major power struggle which takes NO place in an alternative lifestyle whether it be swinging or an open relationship. 
I rarely ever tell my readers to back off and drop subjects but in this case I promise if either one of you press either subject only resentment will follow on both sides. 
I always would like to believe that every relationship is able to handle an alternative lifestyle and granted not knowing your relationship I truly can’t say you aren’t up for the sometimes difficult and long bumpy road swinging can entail.  I do know that with you protesting an open relationship and your wife protesting swinging I honestly believe you both can only handle what you have right now which is a marriage. 
If you falter from your opinions…resentment!  If she falters from her opinions…resentment!
  Let me ask you this, if you have to talk your wife into swinging do you really want her doing it?  And if she says it’s either an open relationship or no way, is that how you want to start an open relationship? 
So… in conclusion, drop both topics for a while and if the communication in your relationship improves maybe open up the conversation again.

Answer:
By Aarron-
One of the odd things about swinging vs open marriage type relationships is that everyone has different definitions.
For some an open relationship entails the ability to do anything they please, while for others it is a very huge list of rules with boundaries up the wazzu.
Swinging for some is the same… one couple thinks of it as completely physical recreational activity to partake in every other month while another may think of it as dating for couples and think becoming best buddies forever is a prerequisite for anything sexual ever taking place.
I have met self described poly people who go from bed to bed without a blink and “swingers” who need half a dozen dates before the panties even begin to come off.
You are right in thinking swinging can give “connections” at a deeper level.
Your wife is wrong in thinking an open marriage type situation is how to achieve such connections.
That doesn’t really matter though because it is all a matter of perspective.
Whichever rout you go the pace will be set by preconceived notions.
If you do eventually end up in the swingers world you will actually find that a lot of couples who swing classify themselves as being in an open relationship just because they have sex with others. In that one aspect they are “open.”
The self described “open relationship” couple may also freak out at the idea of a spouse going to lunch with another from the swinging lifestyle if they are not included. In that aspect they are insecure and very closed.
I agree with Miranda that you should step back from the conversation for a while.
If your fighting about it before you become involved I can’t even imagine how bad you will be fighting after a play date goes wrong.
I would also recommend you read those books you purchased for your wife at Christmas if you haven’t already. The Ethical Slut and Sex at Dawn are not swinger specific books.
People in the swinging lifestyle do often recommend them as great reads, but they are not meant to sell a person on the swinging lifestyle.
Read them!
One thing I got from the description of your situation that is VERY good is that your wife did read those books.
What that tells me is that she actually has a very open mind and is basing her wishes on the information she has gleaned from reading them.
Just as I think you should read the books you got for her I think you could get her a few other books that are more specifically geared towards the swinging lifestyle.
If she is a knowledge seeker she will read them and base her opinions on a larger amount of information than she has from the two books you already got for her.
Some recommendations:
Swinging for Beginners: An Introduction to the Lifestyle (Revised Edition)
Recreational Sex : An Insider’s Guide to the Swinging Lifestyle
Swinging from A to Z: A how-to guide from a full-swap Lifestyle couple for enhancing your relationship with recreational sex
Realise that no book will sell a person on the swinging lifestyle.
For all I know you wife will become even more adamant about not swinging by increasing her knowledge base on the subject.
Swinging is simply not for everyone.

The books mentioned in the question and answers above:
The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships & Other Adventures
Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality

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Wife keeps stepping out of bounds

by on Mar.17, 2011, under Unsorted

Question:
We have been playing in the lifestyle for close to a year now and in all respects have had a great time except for one recurrent problem.
My wife has repeatedly stepped outside of our boundaries.
Our rules are simple and we have agreed to them, yet she breaks them constantly.
Every time it happens she promises to not do whatever it was again.
I enjoy the lifestyle so quitting isn’t an option. Have any advice on this one?

Answer: 
By Miranda-
I can understand your wife’s trouble with staying in the boundaries you two have set for each other.  It’s very easy to be in the heat of playing and realize, “Whoops we said we wouldn’t do that!” I personally think a code word or phrase may help you in getting your wife to step back into the boundary circle of your comfort.  I know it may sound silly but a lot of couples have them when on first meet and greets to either end conversing with a couple or to let the your spouse know, “There is no way we are taking them home!”   
Now the trick in coming up with a catch phrase or word is to make it something you normally in the bedroom would NEVER say.  If there’s a word your wife dislike that’s always a good one because it’ll get her attention.  For example, lets say the word your wife can’t stand is cunt.  I only use that one because a lot of woman really dislike it.  So if you’re in the middle of a play-date and you see your wife doing something you’re not comfortable you could say, ” Honey your CUNT is so wet and juicy looking right now.”  This way the couple you’re playing with doesn’t think you’re crazy for crying out “peanut butter sandwich” and your wife can gracefully stop the thing she’s doing that’s not in your game plan.  No harm no foul!  The real key is to make it so secret that you and your wife are the only ones who will notice it.  I’m not saying this is a full proof plan but I think with a little creative thinking it could just possibly work. 
Communication is key and sometimes done better  in stealth mode.  I hope my answer helps and thanks for the fun question.

Answer:
By Aarron-
You never say what type of rules you two have made that she keeps breaking.
I have noticed that one couples idea of simple rules is another couples idea of crazy rules.
If your rules are things like:

  • Don’t text to much
  • Don’t flirt when I’m not in the room
  • Don’t leave me at the table with a strange couple we just met

Or other little things like that I will straight up tell you that minor behavioral rules like those always end up getting broken and if you have rules like that your eventually going to have to ditch them.

If your rules are things like:

  • Don’t fuck without a condom
  • Don’t swallow cum
  • Don’t leave a party with someone else
  • Don’t swing separate

Then you have some big problems if your wife is breaking the rules.
Personally I am not big on having actual rules. I go with more of a gut feeling approach to the swinging lifestyle and figure as long as I keep my primary partners personality in mind I won’t do anything that may piss her off.
On the other hand many couples do need rules.
The problem arises when one (or both) people decide not to obey the agreed upon rules.
There is no way to actually enforce rules in swinging. You can say “No anal sex” and agree, but what happens if someone breaks the rule?
A fight usually ensues and both partners end up losing in the end.
If you wife is repeatedly breaking the rules you only have two options.
1) Stop swinging.
2) Revise your rules.
You already said that stopping with the lifestyle isn’t an option so that leaves you with revising the rules.
I will use anal sex as an example here because it is a common rule to not have anal sex in swinging because many couples chose to save it for between themselves.
You wife agrees to not have anal sex with other men.
She does it anyway.
You fight about it.
She promises to never do it again.
You feel better.
She does it again.
You fight again.
It is endless.
In swinging the slowest moving or less adventuresome partner of a couple usually sets the tone for swinging activities.
Sometimes the faster moving or more adventuresome partner feels overly restrained though and cheats a bit or pushes the slower partner into advancing a bit farther down the path of getting naughty.
That is your situation.
If you won’t stop swinging then your going to have to either allow/condone at least part of whatever it is your wife is doing or continue with having a problem.
Nobody can force their spouse into doing or not doing anything.
We can only ask.
My advice to you is that if she is breaking a few boundaries that really bug you ask only for those boundaries to stay in place.
Let any smaller boundaries go.
It is easier to follow someones wishes if they are few and important.
It is hard to follow the rules if they are many and minuscule.
Prioritize and compromise.

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